Partial Veil - Or, What Happens When You Live in North Dakota

Our panelists discuss Partial Veil, break their brains trying to figure out the metric system, and of course, give their two cents on North Dakota.

Listen to Partial Veil

CW WARNING: Adult humor and strong language

***THERE WILL BE SPOILERS***
Our discussions are full of spoilers for the first few episodes of the show, so please go listen to it yourself if you do not like spoilers. And of course, let us know what you thought of the show!

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Transcript

Ashley McAnelly (00:51)
Hello, thanks for joining us for another episode of the Here in Horror Podcast where we dive into the depths of horror audio to tell you if it's worth your nightmares. I am Ashley McAnelly and I'm here with my lovely guest. Say hi, guest. I love you. Okay, now was that the first I have to, was that the first time you've actually looked at our intro? Cause I shared before. Was the second time? Okay. Cause I saw your faces.

Allonte (01:05)
Hi guests.

Jessica (01:05)
Hi guests.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (01:05)
Hello guests.

Clay (Unjust) (01:07)
I love y'all so much.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (01:09)
⁓ right?

Allonte (01:16)
Second time,

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (01:18)
No, Yeah, no, we're-

Allonte (01:21)
just can't help but react because I'm like, I'm doing this like, eye roll thing so hard and it's, I think it's

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (01:27)
What am I doing with my hands and all of that? I-

Ashley McAnelly (01:28)
It was wonderful.

Jessica (01:30)
We're all doing a lot with our hands.

Allonte (01:31)
We're all doing a lot. Yeah, yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (01:32)
Yeah.

Clay (Unjust) (01:33)
There's nothing wrong with spirit fingers, okay?

Ashley McAnelly (01:37)
I wanted to get us animated, not just talking heads, but okay.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (01:37)
Jazz hands!

Allonte (01:39)
Yeah, yeah.

I appreciate it. It makes me laugh in a-

Ashley McAnelly (01:45)
Okay, ⁓ so let's go ahead and get to what we got. What we heard in horror this week was episode one and two of Partial Veil created by Allison Cossett. Partial Veil first launched in September of 2024 and has a complete season one with season two in the works. In episode one, it opens with the date October 12th, 1998 and a distance from the moon. So I am fascinated to see what my guests are gonna say about that. ⁓

Allonte (02:11)
Yeah.

Ashley McAnelly (02:14)
⁓ And then we hear an unknown voice reciting part of the Lord's Prayer and ⁓ weeps as like we hear the roar of a chainsaw after that and then we pivot. ⁓ After that mysterious opening we meet Josie Ward and the other police officers and Baron as a body is found. Josie gets questioned by the FBI about the disappearance of Halo Reese.

We get a glimpse at what Josie and Halo's relationship is. From what I gather, is definitely something going on there, but not quite clear what it is yet. By the end of episode 1, we find out that the body is not Reese, but now Josie has a murder to solve. Doesn't take long though, because in episode 2, we find out that it was the wife of the victim who did it, but she says she did it because Reese told her to. Which leads to even more questions that need answers. So.

Let's start with overall, remember try to keep this one short, overall what are our thoughts? ⁓ And I don't have a fun fact this time, so I'm just gonna start, my goodness.

Clay (Unjust) (03:19)
You hear that, audience? We've run out of fun facts about ourselves.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (03:21)
yeah, more fun facts

Jessica (03:22)
I saw the list,

I feel like there were more fun facts.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (03:23)
for y'all.

Ashley McAnelly (03:25)
Listen,

there are but we also go on for a while about them so I thought we were trying to balance them out each episode. So okay, so Clay, overall thoughts.

Jessica (03:28)
We do, we do go on, don't we?

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (03:28)
We are cut for time. We are cut for time.

Allonte (03:29)
you

Clay (Unjust) (03:37)
Overall thoughts, I enjoy this. ⁓ It's hard to find one that I don't. We have found that one. But overall, I enjoy this actually. Like it hits the right buttons for me.

Ashley McAnelly (03:49)
Perfect, alrighty, Allonte

Allonte (03:52)
I'm in camp, I'm not sure. So for me, and I'll talk about this more, it has that element of from the TV show where there's just lots of, there's a mystery and then kind of an answer and then more mystery and I'm just like, I'm not sure how feel. So I will say I kind of enjoy not having to make up that decision quite yet.

Ashley McAnelly (04:19)
Okay, Izzy, how about you?

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (04:21)
⁓ I'm sort of on team not so sure about this one, fam. ⁓ I got hit with a lot of sort of tonal whiplash on this one as things are very upfront and in your face, which is a type of sound design that's really not my bag. Like I understand where the strengths are of it, but it's not necessarily my jam.

Allonte (04:29)
Hmm.

Ashley McAnelly (04:48)
Okay, and then Jessica, what do you think?

Jessica (04:52)
I find the mystery very compelling. I think there's some really impressive things being done here. It's just that for me sometimes the format, because this is a pure audio drama script as opposed to having narration, having any sort of omnipresent something or even a first person narrator describing what's happening. So everything is purely what you're hearing in dialogue.

And at times that can get a bit confusing when we're moving through flashbacks, we're moving through different places and different times and different characters to kind of keep track of what's going on. But I am interested to see how the story pans out and where it goes.

Ashley McAnelly (05:31)
Okay, awesome. So mentioning the story, let's dive right into there. I feel like with this one, we might just start with the characters. So what do we think about, start with Josie.

Allonte (05:43)
I will, I'm going to lead in with like, I really appreciated that it was like a majority female cast. I feel like I don't run into that a lot. And so it was like a nice breath of fresh air for me. For me, I thought the casting was largely really, really excellent. Everybody was very professional. There was only like a couple of one that were misses for me and they were misses for different reasons. And I think one of them was like a miss on purpose.

So I'm curious what other people are thinking.

Ashley McAnelly (06:16)
you think that missile purpose is but okay we'll get to that.

Jessica (06:18)
Was it grace?

Allonte (06:21)
What's the last name?

Jessica (06:22)
the wife of the dead man. I think that was a purposeful choice.

Allonte (06:24)
Yes, yes, yes. Yeah,

I thought it was on purpose too after I sat with it. I was like, yeah, okay, this is on purpose. It's still, still me, but you know.

Ashley McAnelly (06:36)
Okay, how about, so characters as written, not as voice acting characters yet. ⁓ Just how the story's progressing, what do we think so far?

Allonte (06:46)
That's so hard because I feel like the characters are so intrinsic to the voice. Like, there's something like the way Halo Reese is like, okay, first of all, being British in a mostly like American, Pan-America kind of a thing that sets it up for like an almost like uncanniness, like even though America is a big melting pot, right? Like, so it's kind of hard to detangle.

certain affects from the character because they feel intrinsic to the character. They don't necessarily feel like the voice actor's automatic choice. You know what I mean?

Jessica (07:29)
I say that's a good compliment to the voice actors there, that they are so ingrained in the character that it's hard to separate the writing from the character. So good job to the crew.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (07:40)
Yeah.

I feel like a lot of the way the sort of narrative progresses is just sort of through a pure strain of kind of like these different characters. Like you don't get a lot of sort of design outside of character moments to sort of like...

Things are not really set in a scene per se, so a lot of what you get is these very upfront character interactions which tell the story ⁓ to you through that, rather than quieter sound design moments. As an ensemble cast, I thought it was actually really good on that. You have that sort of...

The story is kind of progressing at a very kind of snappy rate throughout.

Allonte (08:36)
Yeah,

it is.

Clay (Unjust) (08:38)
And as far as the casting goes too, think the choices were made correctly, that each one helps the character archetype even more so. Each one's fitting that role that well. Like, like you're talking about the British guy in middle of nowhere in North Dakota is going to stand out. Well, intentional, you know? I think that that was done so well of just making sure that, okay, this person, we don't have to say why they stand out. Their pure existence just is.

Jessica (09:06)
that adds to the mystery, of course, it's like, why is this British dude in North Dakota as someone who lived in South Dakota for four years? The unofficial motto is at least it's not North Dakota. So yeah. So like, because like South Dakota is like, well, at least we have Mount Rushmore. And then it's like, well, North Dakota has, God, is it the one with the world's ugliest state flag? And it looks like a kindergartner drew it. have to see.

Allonte (09:08)
Yeah. ⁓

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (09:16)
What?

Clay (Unjust) (09:17)
You

Allonte (09:17)
What?

damn. That's messed up.

Clay (Unjust) (09:33)
See now I'm just concerned though because you insulted the 12 people from North Dakota not our listeners all 12 people who live in North Dakota ⁓

Allonte (09:38)
12 people.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (09:38)
Also, I feel for North Dakota.

Allonte (09:40)
wow. Okay.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (09:40)
Well, I mean.

Jessica (09:41)
I mean,

look at go ahead and look up the flag for North Dakota and tell me if they deserve it or not. I'll wait.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (09:47)
You're gonna make us look

Clay (Unjust) (09:48)
get.

Allonte (09:48)
⁓

Ashley McAnelly (09:49)
I'm

Clay (Unjust) (09:49)
All right, listeners.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (09:49)
up

something on screen, you monster.

Allonte (09:53)
Oh, oh, oh, oh, okay. I'm just gonna, mm-hm. Anyway.

Jessica (09:53)
I don't know how to do that. Yeah. Yeah.

Clay (Unjust) (09:55)
⁓ that's... Look,

Miss Ginger's kindergarten class deserves full respect for this, okay?

Jessica (10:01)
I'm excited!

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (10:03)
god.

Allonte (10:03)
as, as, as he stated everything up front and we're talking about the characters, part of me, like what I really enjoyed about this as a very music person, I appreciated the use of music, especially as like these like monologue even yet pieces. ⁓ Like the beauty of doing that technique for me means that like, regardless of the delivery, it either greatly enhances it or floors it in such a way where like,

maybe it was a flat delivery, like there's still the dynamic-ness of the music that keeps you engaged and keeps things moving forward. So in a way, I want to say the music could be a character, but I haven't seen that like amped to 11.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (10:48)
I'm

Jessica (10:48)
But as far as

like our protagonist goes, like I am curious to see, because we have in the second episode where Grace Carlson reveals that she's the one who killed her husband. And if you listen to the episode, she's very much not acting normal. She's acting very strangely. She doesn't seem to be accepting the weight of this. She's saying this very casually. She's very upbeat about it. And then she says that it was Oliver Reese slash halo slash how who

Ashley McAnelly (11:04)
Mm.

Jessica (11:16)
did this, who told her to do it in her mind. That she heard his voice in her mind and he sort of implanted this seed of like, she obviously, because she and her husband couldn't have children, and she obviously felt guilt about that. And she even says that her husband never made her feel bad about that, but she felt like she wasn't doing her duty in the relationship ⁓ personally. And the voice of Reese kind of.

told her that that was true, that Eric resented her, that he didn't think that, you know, she was pulling her weight in their marriage because she was unable to have children. And so I'm curious to see if that influence, if it really was Oliver Reese or something using his voice or using his presence to sort of like mislead and do a red herring there, if that also had its influence on Josie because she sort of acts strangely with him as well.

because we get our first introduction to how they met. She moved back to Barron, North Dakota because her mom was ill. ⁓ Her mother, and she had to come take care of her, so she rejoined the police force. She grew up in Barron. And then her mother passed away, and she inherits the house. She's trying to sell it, and she can't leave before she sells the house. She needs the money from the house sale in order to go live her life again. But one of her first calls when she gets back is some teenagers are being held hostage.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (12:10)
Yeah.

Allonte (12:12)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (12:39)
Mmm.

Jessica (12:40)
And she's like, these teenagers, you know, they were messing around snooping in his place. And I go there and I look in the window and he's got them tied up with a duct tape. You know kids these days.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (12:46)
You

Allonte (12:51)
was like, what?

Jessica (12:53)
And the FBI

agents are like, yeah, the FBI agents are like.

Yeah. And she's like, they were laughing. It was fine. And, you know, he has a great smile. Yeah. And I'm like, so.

Allonte (12:59)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (Unjust) (13:04)
Ha ha ha ha!

Allonte (13:17)
Yeah.

Jessica (13:18)
And she's like,

oh, you know, kids. so like, it's like.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (13:20)
You

Clay (Unjust) (13:21)
You must not have grew up in

North Dakota.

Jessica (13:25)
Yeah, so...

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (13:25)
I mean, North

Dakota, you know what? Kids get up to really weird shit up north. I would know.

Allonte (13:29)
Mm.

Jessica (13:29)
Yeah, and you just tie them up with duct tape when

they act up. it's like, my only issues I think I've had with Josie so far is she just seems entirely brain rotted when it comes to Oliver Reese. And I'm like, is he that? Because she mentioned he's got a nice smile. And I'm like, girl, how nice can this smile be?

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (13:48)
It's a fuckin' nice

Allonte (13:49)
Okay,

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (13:50)
smile. Wait, we're not supposed to swear, sorry.

Allonte (13:51)
this whole recap and my feelings on the show and why, I think I mentioned it, but it's giving me from. From, you get kind of tossed in this world, tossed in this mystery. Things aren't quite right. Things don't really line up to even what the characters think is normal life. And then there's just question and question and question and question. Yeah, it's a mystery box.

Clay (Unjust) (14:14)
Mystery Box.

Allonte (14:18)
I could only get up to episode four before joining our recording and I'm just like, are we gonna get some answers? Where are the answers? I think that is the only, or that is one of the downsides I was experiencing going from one to four is I kind of need a little bit of answer or breadcrumb here to get to the next point.

Clay (Unjust) (14:43)
So on that real quick, I want to ask you a more personal

question about the genre itself. How do you feel about mystery boxes as is? To give the biggest example being Twin Peaks that was never supposed to have an answer. ⁓

Allonte (14:47)
Mm-hmm.

My dad's on that.

Yeah. ⁓ I do enjoy mystery boxes, but the hard thing is...

It's, I feel like it's exceedingly difficult to do an audio. Like when I'm listening to the show, I can feel like this, the AMC HBO Showtime, like bam, like production. But there's some stuff lost as Jessica mentioned, by not having like visual elements, by not having like breaks or like these kind of clear delineations between scenes.

Clay (Unjust) (15:18)
Mm-hmm.

Allonte (15:32)
Because the mystery boxes aren't just like, they said this, they did this, there's a thing off in the corner that like a season later, you're like, that was relevant. So I think I look at, I like mystery boxes for the breadcrumbs and trying to be like, do the whole knives out thing of like, who done it? I think I know who did it because in the first five minutes this person did this.

Clay (Unjust) (15:43)
That's fair.

Jessica (15:57)
Well, we do have some breadcrumbs. ⁓ have, because Josie mentioned during her strangely combative interview with the FBI that she had like gone missing in the, she's like, yeah, when I was seven, I went missing in the woods. And they're like, well, what do you remember about it? Yeah. yeah, yeah. She has a file because she like applied to join the FBI a few times. ⁓

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (16:12)
Well the FBI folks, they brought it up. They were like, we saw it in your file. was 67 or something, like yeah.

Allonte (16:15)
Hmm

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (16:24)
A lot of times.

Jessica (16:26)
A lot of times apparently she went missing in the woods. mean, again, having lived in South Dakota, I understand. ⁓ I moved back to the desert. That's how bad it was. But so she went missing in the woods for three days and she's and we know there's some supernatural foolery going on because she said she skinned her knee on like day one and then she doesn't remember the three days she was missing. And when she came back out, the knee is still bleeding. And I believe these

Clay (Unjust) (16:26)
Get me out of Baron! ⁓

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (16:29)
She's stuck there.

Allonte (16:33)
Mm-mm.

Mm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (16:54)
Which is a great device,

I think. Just that, Yeah, it's a good weird hook. Like, it's a solid weird hook.

Jessica (16:57)
Yeah, I was like, ooh, we love the weird little creepy stuff. I love a little, I love a little moment. Yeah, I'm like, ooh, okay.

Allonte (17:03)
What?

Jessica (17:07)
Right, so like we have that, that little, that little, that little nugget. We have the moon thing.

Allonte (17:13)
Okay, this confused me so I'm like, okay, so first of all, the whole format, I thought the trailer at beginning of episode one was the show. I was like, why are they telling me the entire show before they start the-

Clay (Unjust) (17:28)
You

Jessica (17:28)
I think that's

worth mentioning. If you do listen to the episode from episode one, you're going to hear a teaser for a podcast. It is not the podcast you are about to listen to. Cause on, Allonte even mentioned it in like our chat. He's like, I totally thought the trailer at the beginning was for the show. And then I was confused and I was like, what's he talking about? And then I listened to it and I was like, wow, this is different from like the trailer that was, I thought that was folk horror. And now we're talking about a missing husband. And then I was like, my God, he told me and I still did it. I still did it.

Allonte (17:36)
Yeah

Yeah, it's just a, it's just, yeah, yeah. It's just silly

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (17:55)
You fell for it.

Clay (Unjust) (17:55)
Hahaha

Allonte (17:58)
little thing. Yeah.

Jessica (17:59)
So when you listen to episode one, that little teaser at the beginning, that is a teaser for another show. is not the show you're about to listen to. But immediately after that, we have some unknown homie who's like the date, the unknown homie. That's the ⁓ if you will, the they're like the date and it's in the eighties, I believe. Nineties. It's great. ⁓ and then they give the distance from the moon.

Allonte (18:10)
The unknown homie. Yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (18:13)
The Unknown Homie, yes!

Ashley McAnelly (18:16)
Ahem.

Clay (Unjust) (18:16)
You

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (18:17)
No, me. Yeah. 90s. Yeah. Late 90s.

Allonte (18:21)
98? Yeah.

Ashley McAnelly (18:22)
90s 98.

Jessica (18:28)
in kilometers and my...

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (18:30)
I mean,

I love that for us up here in Canada. Like, thanks. Thank you for the metrics.

Allonte (18:31)
Our American brains are like, what?

Jessica (18:33)
My dumb American brain is like, is that, is that,

Allonte (18:37)
Is that

a secret in-world measurement? don't... Yeah.

Jessica (18:39)
it's, I know I'm like, is this the correct distance from the moon? Are we getting closer to the moon? Are we getting further from the moon? Is this a Majora's Mask situation? Where's the moon?

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (18:45)
Okay, okay, if we're getting further from the moon than this distance,

then we are in legit trouble. This is like the apogee of the moon. Like, how far it can get. Yeah.

Clay (Unjust) (18:53)
I'm glad you said Majora's

Jessica (18:54)
We're losing the moon. ⁓

Ashley McAnelly (18:55)
What

did it say on?

Clay (Unjust) (18:56)
Mask though, because that was the first thing I thought of. was like, that the plot? Is we going to die? Is it incoming? And I was like...

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (19:02)
Is it in- I

mean, it better be! It better be incoming! It's on an elliptical orbit, and that's its furthest point, so...

Clay (Unjust) (19:09)
Okay, well, my difference is, now is it getting closer?

Is it going to hit my backyard? That was my thought.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (19:14)
Okay, okay, no, this is not a Majora's Mask situation. I don't think.

Allonte (19:14)
Yeah! ⁓

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (19:19)
I mean, we don't know. I haven't listened to the entire thing. It's got a second season coming out. It could be a Majora's Mask situation. This could be like, boom, dawn of the 12th day or something.

Jessica (19:20)
So there's no face, there better be a, I need a face of the moon.

Allonte (19:26)
Hmm?

Well, can I skip to the-

Ashley McAnelly (19:32)
Well, Allonte, did it follow

through? Like, I've only listened to one and two. I didn't do any further. So on E and three, keeps going. Did you notice that the number's getting bigger or smaller?

Allonte (19:36)
Yeah, it keeps going. keeps...

I honestly... Like, it's happening, but the numbers went like whoosh.

Ashley McAnelly (19:45)
I wrote down the first one but forgot to write down the second one to compare my notes. But yeah, I wanted to know, like, what are your theories other than the Majora mask feel? Is there anything else?

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (19:49)
I think we all did.

Clay (Unjust) (19:53)
You

Allonte (19:54)
Well, this is leading me

to my other question is like, all right, so there's something maybe important about 1998 and I'm not quite sure what it is.

Clay (Unjust) (20:03)
My thought on that ⁓ is just, think we need a new term for this genre because we had like the westerns was an era specific and now we're doing seeing a lot of stuff from the 90s. I hate to just point to the obvious of stranger things, but.

Jessica (20:16)
Don't

say a period piece because I will throw up. I will throw up.

Allonte (20:18)
I would throw hands.

Clay (Unjust) (20:18)
No, no, God.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (20:19)
Hahaha!

Ashley McAnelly (20:19)
I mean...

Allonte (20:21)
Yeah.

Clay (Unjust) (20:21)
And even that, hate that expression because it's like, okay, but what period? Like I'm gonna need still some more brother. Like I said, we had Westerns, we could have the 90s, but it feels so lackluster to call it that, but we're seeing a lot more 90s things now. And part of it, think, well, and I think it's possibly that, but also Izzy, we were talking about TTRPGs one time. And when you have lack of internet, lack of cell phones, you can do a mystery so much better, you know?

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (20:32)
I feel like it's just the nostalgia cycle catching up to a different time period, so...

Allonte (20:43)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (20:44)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica (20:46)
Exactly.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (20:46)
yeah.

Jessica (20:47)
It's not like, well, why didn't you text me? It's like, because we didn't have texting. Okay.

Clay (Unjust) (20:50)
What's going on?

Allonte (20:50)
Yeah.

Clay (Unjust) (20:51)
Well, I looked

up Wikipedia and chat GPT and now we know what's going on, you know.

Allonte (20:51)
Witchward Leets?

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (20:54)
It's like, why can't I look up this specific thing? It's like, because the internet is like five people right now. Exactly.

Allonte (20:55)
which circles back to the moon.

Mm-hmm.

Clay (Unjust) (21:00)
And for them you don't

want to talk to

Jessica (21:03)
HAHAHAHA

Ashley McAnelly (21:03)
Hahaha

Allonte (21:05)
Which to me circles back to the moon, right? Cause you have to think about the tech at the time then and was like, could you get a really super accurate distance with 98 technology?

Clay (Unjust) (21:17)
Us? No. NASA? Easily.

Allonte (21:19)
Mm, which means that like this person is an alien or like works for NASA or something else, you know?

Jessica (21:20)
Like.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (21:25)
Or is

Justin enthusiast about the moon? I don't know.

Jessica (21:29)
Well, didn't

Galileo accurately, within a realm of whatever, judge the distance to different planets and stuff?

Allonte (21:29)
I don't know.

That's a fair point. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the,

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (21:41)
Yeah.

Jessica (21:41)
So if like, Homie, like Homie could do it. We were not that backwards in 1998.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (21:44)
yeah, when it comes to stars

and stuff, like we've got interested as a species real early. So, you know, if you think like, is that distant? Did they have accurate distances? They did. They had reasonably accurate distances to things.

Allonte (22:03)
Stand corrected. But I will point out the voice used is very different from everyone else. Meaning like either the accent of the actual voice actor or the affect they're portraying feels very alien from the rest of the cast.

Jessica (22:03)
Yaps.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (22:28)
Well, it's got like a little bit of reverb on it to kind of put it outside of what else is kind of going on, because we go from like the moon, like at its apogee, given in its distance to unnamed homie, I think we were calling him, with the wolf howls and the ravens and then the smash cut to a silence and the chainsaw and another smash cut to the telephone. like there's a lot of there's a lot happening there. Like

Clay (Unjust) (22:29)
and I took that

Jessica (22:29)
That is something.

Allonte (22:43)
The unnamed homie, yes.

Jessica (22:43)
The unnamed

homie.

Allonte (22:53)
Mm-hmm.

which makes me jump to episode two really quickly. So that is my gripe with the opening of episode two. If the portrayal of Mrs. Carlson was supposed to be off-putting, it makes it very, it made it very hard for me to like really settle into episode two because there's this like echo going on with an already kind of like off-putting character.

or portrayal that like I kind of needed to pause and like, then when it started, I needed to breathe. was like, okay, cool.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (23:32)
Yeah.

Yeah, there's

a little bit of a trope that's kind of going on with the design wherein there's lot of overlapping voice moments that happen that can be a little... Like, they're supposed to be disorienting, but at the same time, it's a little bit much? At least...

Jessica (23:53)
Well, the first time it

happened, was like, okay, we're in a party scene now. This is everybody talking at a party scene. But then it just kind of like devolved into like people like weeping and screaming and crying. And I'm like, this is a bad party, man. I don't know what's going on here. But then I was like, okay, this is sort of like a scene break is what I think that that is being used as.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (24:07)
You

Allonte (24:07)
Yeah, I want to understand.

Clay (Unjust) (24:07)
No.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (24:12)
Yeah, yeah. That one was used as a

Allonte (24:15)
But it happens

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (24:15)
scene break.

Allonte (24:16)
at the end of the episodes as a stinger and like I was like trying to figure out like is it a stinger? Is it just something cool they wanted to do? Like what is this trying to tell me the listener and I just couldn't quite figure it out.

Jessica (24:18)
Yeah.

think there's

a lot of exploration in these early episodes and I haven't listened past the first two so it might, because it's like it might be important to the plot later on like the problems or the issues that I'm seeing right now it might be like something that's resolved later on so it's like I don't want to be like I don't like this this didn't make any sense why was this here when it's like well in season two that solves the whole Sheboygan you know and we don't know that yet.

Allonte (24:33)
Mmm.

Mm.

Clay (Unjust) (24:57)
Hahaha

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (24:57)
Hahahaha

Allonte (24:58)
But we have

to kind of judge this on like, yes, but that is 2020, that's hindsight, right? Like we kind of need to go from on onset, no nothing to, you know. But I will say going from two to three to four, I saw a lot of like improvements in spaces that where I was finding a little challenging or hoping there would be. So like I have high hopes the further this goes.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (25:11)
Yeah, I stuck inside the...

Jessica (25:26)
Yeah, I think just overall, the problems that I'm seeing, if we want to discuss the difference between having a pure audio drama script where it is only sounds, it is only dialogue versus having narration, I think that's kind of where a lot of my confusion with what's going on comes in, like not knowing what these voices are or why they're here or things like that. We have a lot of very small scenes.

⁓ we have a lot of moments where we don't know that it's a flashback until we get more context and stuff like that. ⁓ and I think that kind of plays into a lot of. It's hard to write a purely audio script. ⁓ as someone who reads submissions of audio scripts, and sometimes people just send up straight up screenplays and they're like, so and so is wearing a black leather jacket and he walks across the room. He's holding a metal bat, which he taps against the floor. And I'm like,

Allonte (26:04)
Yes it is.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (26:06)
You

Set up the foley for it. We'll get a jacket, we'll get a bat, you know?

Allonte (26:19)
How? Yeah.

Jessica (26:22)
Right, like, and

even then it's like, how is the listener going to know that what they're hearing is someone's jacket rustling and that that's a bat hitting the floor? So I think a lot of times it's, it's hard when you're writing something to interpret how it's going to sound purely in audio. a lot of like, if I was looking at the script from this, I would probably see like interior present day, ⁓ Josie Ward's car or something like that. And then in the next scene, it would be like,

Allonte (26:29)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica (26:50)
initial interview, past, in the past, so and so and so and so. But as purely an audio listener, we're not privy to that information. So we only have the sounds to go off of. I think having the shorts, I feel like when the scenes are longer and we know where we are and who we're with, that's where the story really shines because we know what's going on. It's when we are switching scenes.

Allonte (27:13)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica (27:17)
that I'm feeling some confusion about what's happening in the story process.

Allonte (27:23)
So I just want to echo exactly what you said, because I'm in the same boat, I can feel it. I can see that it is AMC Showtime HBO, that kind of show. I can tell. And for me, think I was also, there were only a couple of moments where I had trouble painting the picture. I think...

the blessing and the curse of having so many disparate voices is that I had, I could see each character individually, but I had a hard time seeing them all in the same scene. Like it's easier, as you mentioned, like in the long scenes, because that's where things shine and you get a little subtlety here, you get a little nod here, a little fully here. So you're like, all right, you're here, you're here. You're probably this tall, you know, you have like probably a big broad chest because like you're coming at them like rawr.

Clay (Unjust) (28:20)
down Allonte down. No ginger Cowboys here.

Allonte (28:20)
So, meow. Meow. Damn it!

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (28:21)
Mm. Rawr!

Ashley McAnelly (28:22)
you

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (28:25)
Yep.

Ashley McAnelly (28:26)
you

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (28:27)
I think that... I'm sorry.

Jessica (28:29)
I'll say I liked ⁓

everyone having such distinct voices ⁓ because again, having a purely audio script, I can recognize them pretty quickly. ⁓ Doing the casting for No Sleep and stuff, there have been times where it's like I've cast people that I think would do great for the role. And then you see the comments for the episode, it's like, I can't tell so and so and so so apart. Their accents are too similar, their voices are too, you know, like people, because not everyone has the same like...

Allonte (28:53)
⁓

Yeah.

Jessica (28:59)
like ear for recognizing voices and stuff. And I'm like, okay, maybe we don't cast those two as people having a conversation with each other again, you know, that kind of thing. So having such distinct voices, it's like, I know exactly who's speaking, even if I don't know when they're speaking or where they're speaking, I know exactly who's speaking.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (29:07)
Hahaha

Allonte (29:08)
now.

Mm-hmm. I-I- No, you go. You go.

Clay (Unjust) (29:19)
I will say, sorry, I'll say it like to back that up

easily. So I'm one of those people with dumb ears, like distinction is difficult for, oh, it's yeah, no, my friend calls it dumb ears. Tonal language is completely lost on me. So yeah, making it easy for me to be like, okay, that's easily person A, this is person B. Like, oh, it's a God, it's an absolute godsend for that one. Love it. So thank you for that.

Allonte (29:25)
my ears.

Ashley McAnelly (29:40)
Izzy, you wanted to add something? Go ahead.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (29:41)
Yeah, actually. Because in regards to the character aspects of this, I feel like there's a little bit of a what-the-heck moment with each character we're introduced to that gives that sort of twin-peaks-y kind of thing. Like, Josie, for instance, has a little...

Allonte (29:54)
Yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (30:07)
you know, we're introduced to her and she's sort of our vector through which we experience the narrative. But like right away we're getting like Ray the police guy and Walter Ross who are like very, ⁓ shucks, heck. you know, they're very like Fargo as heck. Like, and it's like, I think there's a body like, ⁓ geez. And I'm like.

Jessica (30:25)
Fargo as hell.

Ashley McAnelly (30:27)
Yes.

Allonte (30:31)
Yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (30:33)
what's going on with this town? Like we're introduced to like Diane Ramsey, the special agent, and she comes in with like they're playing, what is it? The flower. Yeah, no, it's the duo de flure. It's the duo de flure, which is like straight up American horror story.

Jessica (30:48)
like hardcore opera and then there's like a ⁓ fleshy sound.

Allonte (30:50)
Oh yeah, they were like

cutting. Yeah, I was like... Yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (30:57)
like, ⁓ with the stabby- like the wettest, stabbiest sounds going on, and she answers the phone and gets called, and she calls in this agent DeWitt, ⁓ or no, not DeWitt, just Wit, I think. ⁓ yeah, it's Alene Wit, yeah. And, ⁓ she comes in and she's got the- the over-the-top accent, and is kind of all gung-ho, she has the- the exchange with, ⁓ shoot, what's her name?

Ashley McAnelly (31:10)
Wit, yep.

Jessica (31:10)
Wit, yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (31:26)
⁓ Angie. Yeah, Ange. ⁓ Where you're like, who are these people? What's going on? Like, they're all just a little bit out of true in that kind of like...

Jessica (31:27)
Angie. Angie.

Allonte (31:33)
⁓

Jessica (31:38)
I wrote

everyone in this story is a freak in my notes. Everyone is acting so strangely. But again, like, is this intentional? Is there like some greater weirdness happening on that's affecting how people talk and communicate?

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (31:41)
Everyone in this story really is a freak.

Allonte (31:42)
Yeah.

Okay,

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (31:53)
Like, I'm kinda

Allonte (31:53)
I will say...

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (31:53)
hoping that's really what it is, cause like, it's... it's... it's that kind of everything is out of true, everything's a little bit off.

like, uncanny, that like, I feel like if that continues on through the story, that would be like, really cool to see it explores like, what is going wrong with all of these people? Because it started before, like, Diane even showed up, because I don't know who the fuck she's like, murdering in her house. Okay.

Allonte (32:03)
Hmm

Mmmmm

I thought she was just making lunch or a salad or something. I was just like, yeah.

Jessica (32:25)
Right, exactly. Cause again, like just

having the audio, we don't, she wasn't like, sorry, I was making lunch or whatever, you know.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (32:30)
Okay, I know how

Allonte (32:31)
Well, I thought it was

a clever transition trying to... Well, it's... yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (32:32)
you make those noises in like a... It's either a gore... It's a gore to some form. It's either a melon or a pumpkin or something for the big funk sound and the squashing bits. But you need to get some real metal on metal for that knife. It's got a shh-k kind of quality to it that's just... It's the stabbiest... Wettest of stabbiest sounds. It doesn't...

Jessica (32:36)
Was it a watermelon? What was it Izzy?

So she's carving pumpkins,

Allonte (32:59)
Okay, yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (33:00)
Yeah it goes all the

Jessica (33:00)
we got it.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (33:01)
way to ten. Like right off the bat, just like right up there.

Allonte (33:05)
So, okay, so

you think what was happening was a dead body? like a, cause for me, for me it felt like a fake out. It's really what, but it felt like a fake out because we get from this like murder intrigue thing to like that like, and like yeah, you're meant, like it sounds like it's supposed to be the eye of the murderer to the person who did the body thing, right? And then you get the transition with the music and it's like.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (33:12)
It's a little wet. It's a little wet for a dead body.

Jessica (33:15)
It was very wet.

Allonte (33:35)
I was like, yeah, they're playing music while making food, right? Yeah, yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (33:39)
Yeah, there's definitely like a, they start with the straight up, straight up like

Jessica (33:40)
some Hannibal Lecter ass shit going on.

Clay (Unjust) (33:42)
Hahaha

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (33:44)
the duo de fleur ⁓ opera aria going on. And then it transitions where you can hear that it is now on like a device that's being played openly in a room. Like there's that tininess shift, ⁓ which was appreciated. It's like we're going from the ear of the character into the ear of the recording point, essentially. There's like...

Allonte (33:53)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I really liked it. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (34:06)
depending on how you design things, whether or not you have a point in the room that exists as the ear of the listener, separate from everyone, is part of...

style. This one doesn't really have that so much. We tend to stay very close in with all of the voices at approximately the same volume, so like there's no sense of being in the space most of the time, though you can see kind of the usage of the the techniques that are used to kind of create that idea of of space being used just without that sort of like the creation of distance.

Allonte (34:33)
We don't get a lot of left or right.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (34:48)
which is usually just alterations of panning and and volume of the voices

Jessica (34:56)
Yeah, I'd say it's more like an audio movie, so to speak, rather than like found footage, you know, where it's like the camera's over here and we're talking over here. It's like we're just, we're very much just in the action the whole time.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (34:59)
Yeah. Yeah, no, it has...

Allonte (35:00)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (35:07)
Yeah,

Allonte (35:08)
You

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (35:08)
it has more of that feeling of like the old school radio play wherein like everything is kind of like a similar distance because they're all

like, there for audio quality, like, you get that ability to, ⁓ like, really hear what everybody is saying so that, it cuts above any sort of noise. Like, they used to do that to... because the noise that radios made essentially made it really hard to create those sort of spaces, and also you had to edit the ever-living hell out of them, so...

Allonte (35:34)
Mmm.

Well, you brought up a great point, Izzy, ⁓ that everyone's a little bit left from truth, I think you said. And just off of truth. so what, I will bring up the, like, one really red flag for me was Ange. Because, like, and I wanna know if that was, if that was the voice actor's choice, or if that was just what happened or something else.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (35:50)
Just off of true. Yeah, they're all just a little off of true. Like, there's something wrong.

Ashley McAnelly (35:53)
No.

Allonte (36:12)
because they like were, for me, were hitting very close to that line of caricature, like all for me. ⁓ And I'm glad I kept listening because I wanted to make sure that they pulled back a little bit. And at least in like episode three, they pulled back from it, but like they were still pretty high, like orange, orange red. ⁓

So that was one of my big voice acting concerns. And I would love to know. If it's a voice actor's choice, I'm all for it. for me, that was the most true character. ⁓ Even hitting that red, you can tell the parts where the voice actor brought in maybe pieces of themselves or somebody they knew or somebody that they grew up with. And for me,

That character is also the closest thing I've found so far to like the story's voice of truth. So I wonder if they are absent, this whole being left of truth, or maybe I'm wrong, they're the most affected, I don't.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (37:20)
Well, there

is kind of a chain of characters pointing out just how kind of crazy the other characters are, because like Angie is definitely like, as she's being interviewed by the FBI folk, definitely pretty upfront with like, okay, and this one is straight up crazy. Which is kind of legit.

Allonte (37:28)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

But like, they were also, I feel like, playing into a thing for the characters in the scene. So I was like, I was torn on how exactly to feel about the exchange. Does that make sense?

Jessica (37:55)
I

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (37:56)
Hmm.

Jessica (37:57)
I don't know, I think it comes, again, in my opinion, from what I've seen so far, it comes back to having a pure audio script. We can't see in the, there's no narration to tell us anybody's backstory ⁓ or their perspective or where they come from. So in order to know people's backstories, they have to flat out tell us. And so that happens with quite a few characters so far where they'll just flat out say something that you normally wouldn't talk about.

Allonte (38:17)
Mmm.

wouldn't say, yeah.

Jessica (38:25)
and have like a full like, you know, like a full prepared speech about certain aspects of like your background or your childhood that I kind of felt like in this, ⁓ in this situation where a lot of times characters will be like, and this is how I got here. And it's like, nobody asked. But, but then how do you get those moments outside of

Clay (Unjust) (38:45)
come on. You don't think every character needs a David Copperfield moment, you know?

Allonte (38:47)
⁓

man. Yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (38:50)
Mmm

Jessica (38:50)
Because again,

it's a purely audio script. So it's like how, if this is important information to know about this character, how do you do that where it sounds natural? And I think that's again, a big difficulty in working with a pure audio script. You either have to be very, very nuanced or you have to have someone flat out say it. And maybe in order to move the story along, have you understand these characters immediately, the creator was like, I want you to know this now, this is important to know now. So we're just, we're just going to say it, you know?

Ashley McAnelly (39:08)
you

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (39:20)
Yeah, it loses no time.

Allonte (39:20)
Yeah, I think I think you're

right. Yeah. Yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (39:24)
You

Allonte (39:24)
Like,

I thought, well, I agree, but for me, I'm glad I continued listening to three and some of four because I thought from episode one, this was gonna be the season mystery. We were gonna get this slow burn. Just because we've been listening to so many slow burns, I was like, kind of precondition myself, and for it be, answer, here you go. I was like.

Clay (Unjust) (39:25)
Yes, done.

Jessica (39:54)
Yeah, I guess part of this is kind of like whiplash because like our last store, our last one was so minimalist. Just one, one guy, no sound effects, no music, very nuanced writing. And then to go from that into like a full production, I was like, I was like, all right.

Allonte (39:56)
Yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (40:00)
Mmm.

Allonte (40:07)
HBO. Yeah. Yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (40:08)
Yeah, this I wanted to like mention

Ashley McAnelly (40:09)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (40:11)
at some point, like, we kind of went from like, okay, very like, going for the real very minimalist production, like, complete whiplash to the other side of the spectrum, where it's like, there's just like, the, there's a lot.

Allonte (40:30)
This is more my jam, so. I have a lot of like just kudos and joy and sorrow and empathy of the whole gambit for this creator, because I've been in this boat, like where I was doing like it all. Izzy was there with me, we were doing it all. And it's so, and it's so, so difficult, right? Because.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (40:32)
I know it's your jam, but music is your thing, Allonte.

We're doing all this a lot.

Allonte (40:57)
Like for me sometimes I'd get so involved in trying to maybe get a character right that I completely didn't like take a second and third pass at a dialogue. So when it actually went out there, I was like, ⁓ man, this could have been more natural. So that's the other side of it. Like when you were in all of it, you have this clear, amazing vision. You can get everybody aligned. You can get everybody like on the same page and like create something really beautiful.

but without, and I'm so glad Easy was there as a sounding board, right? Like, cause it shored up a lot of like the weaknesses I was having. So I'm just saying I have a lot of love and kudos for the creator.

Clay (Unjust) (41:35)
Ha ha.

Jessica (41:37)
Yeah, I The like, I think I've tried to do like an actual produced audio thing with like sound effects once. And I was like, this is awful. I hate this. ⁓

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (41:44)
There's, there's

a lot to learn. there's, it's, it's kind of a, it's whole jam. Like, ⁓

Clay (Unjust) (41:49)
Mmm.

Jessica (41:51)
Yeah, like it's,

it's yeah.

Clay (Unjust) (41:54)
I completely agree with it. Like there's a folder on my computer. When I die, please delete it. It's not what you think it is. It's just a lot of half produced bullshit that a three in the morning of me messing around with audio that never ever needs to see light of day. Just get rid that for me.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (42:09)
Publish. Just upload, upload everything to freesound. ⁓

Allonte (42:10)
publish. Do you like the last story? Publish it like you're psychiatristing.

Clay (Unjust) (42:13)
Yeah

Jessica (42:14)
Yeah.

Clay (Unjust) (42:17)
Jesus Christ.

Allonte (42:20)
Yeah.

Ashley McAnelly (42:21)
yeah, go ahead Izzy. If you had- you're gonna add something.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (42:22)
Oh, no, I think I'm

good if we want to move along into our next topic, because I think...

Ashley McAnelly (42:27)
Okay, well I did wanna,

cause we kinda like, we just went for it. Y'all kinda just went everywhere. So, well, and that was part of it. know. But I am interested, so Allonte if you know the answers already from three or four, don't answer, but like, what are the questions left that would listen on for to see if you get an answer soon? Or sometime in season one? Like, what are those questions that you really were interested in?

Allonte (42:31)
We just, we just ate the whole gambit. Yeah. Yeah. Heard them cats.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (42:32)
Yeah, we kind of, this one's very scattered. We're all over the place with this one.

Clay (Unjust) (42:35)
Where were you Ashley? Where were you?

Ashley McAnelly (42:57)
Cause the one for me, when it was smaller, but at the end of E2 where we get the wit to Ramsey's like, why did you even bring me on? there's some kind of history between those two and that was kind of something I didn't see coming. So that was another, like just another subplot. I'm kind of interested to see how that plays out.

Jessica (43:17)
Yeah, I'm curious about certain romantic entanglements, because I was like, these FBI agents?

Allonte (43:19)
I will.

Can I give a slight spoiler? Just ever so slight. It's not, it it gets, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna say, we can cut this out.

Jessica (43:26)
No? I don't... Can you?

Ashley McAnelly (43:27)
Short.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (43:27)
Are we allowed?

Clay (Unjust) (43:30)
That's my job. If we're not allowed to do that, I'm outta here.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (43:33)
Ha ha

Ashley McAnelly (43:33)
Okay, if it.

I it's,

okay, go ahead.

Clay (Unjust) (43:39)
hahahaha

Allonte (43:40)
That'll be answered sooner than later. That's it. That's all I wanted to say. Yeah.

Jessica (43:42)
Okay. Okay. Okay.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (43:42)
Okay, that's fair. That's fair.

Ashley McAnelly (43:42)
Okay, okay, okay, okay.

Jessica (43:46)
Because like homegirl Josie is like obviously into all of her, right? Like she's not fooling literally anybody. And I'm like, girl, I haven't seen the smile, but like girl, but like girl.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (43:54)
Well, I mean...

Allonte (43:55)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (44:00)
Yeah,

is an odd one. Like, there's something off there.

Jessica (44:04)
Yeah.

Ashley McAnelly (44:08)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica (44:09)
Yeah.

Clay (Unjust) (44:09)
Look,

there's just something, you know, wonderful about a man who just happens to stand his bathrobe in the middle of the woods and being like, yeah, life's okay. Weird, but okay.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (44:16)
Yeah, I mean, he's

real into psychedelics is one of the things that is like mentioned and it's it shows not into mushrooms, which I think is important, but

Jessica (44:21)
And it shows.

Ashley McAnelly (44:21)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Clay (Unjust) (44:22)
Hehehehehe

Jessica (44:28)
Granted, like the British accent will do it for so many people. Like you could, like you could have nothing else going on, but if you got an accent.

Allonte (44:31)
Yeah,

I gotta admit to y'all though, like the first 15 minutes, I was like, I should just quit being a voice actor. Like everything was so crisp, everyone sounded so good and was in their character. I was like, well, fuck me, I guess. Sorry, my bad.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (44:43)
You

Jessica (44:46)
⁓ yeah.

Yeah, and I'll say

the voice acting quality was very professional. everywhere, this didn't feel like anybody's first gig. And at times when the dialogue could maybe feel a little unnatural to how, you know, people just talk out in the world, I think the voice actors did a really good job of smoothing that over in a way that, like, any qualms I have with the writing, the acting made it less noticeable for me, if that makes sense.

Clay (Unjust) (45:19)
If I remember correctly too, though, everyone on this show has a pretty decent resume. And I believe most, if not all, like actually have a history together. So they know how to work with each other, which I think.

Allonte (45:19)
fingers.

⁓

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (45:30)
Mmm.

Jessica (45:31)
I was

going to ask, usually this is Allonte's question of if they recorded together because that first scene with Josie and Oliver, there are reaction noises to what he's saying, just like little things that aren't usually in a script where he's like, come on Josie. And she's like, you know, like usually there's not a, in the script, but that's something that happens naturally when you talk to each other. So ⁓ luckily we have the creator here to ask questions. That's one of my big questions is how much of it was recorded together and.

Ashley McAnelly (45:49)
you

Allonte (45:49)
Mm. Mm-mm.

Jessica (46:01)
whether or not it was ⁓ recorded individually and just stitched together because it comes off very well like everyone's talking together.

Allonte (46:09)
Five cents tells me there was at least one or two table reads.

For me my questions are really like the like more esoteric like why? 1998 specific I feel like it's more than the technology stuff like I think there's something because they could have said like 1990 there's something about like on the cusp of the Millennium Or time skip

Jessica (46:29)
Maybe we'll get a time skip. So we need

to like set it in the past so we can like jump 10 years in the future or something.

Allonte (46:35)
which might be why

that moon thing is happening, but also like why the name, why the name, right? Like for Sparks, it's, yeah, like.

Ashley McAnelly (46:37)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (46:41)
The name Partial Veil? It's ⁓

Jessica (46:45)
It's the name of

the woods that Josie got lost in,

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (46:47)
also the cap of a mushroom.

Ashley McAnelly (46:47)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica (46:50)
⁓

Allonte (46:51)
Really? See, didn't...

Ashley McAnelly (46:53)
Interesting.

Jessica (46:55)
Okay, is it a psychedelic mushroom?

Allonte (46:55)
I thought it was like between two

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (46:57)
Well, the guy's

Allonte (46:57)
worlds.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (46:58)
not into psychedelic mushrooms, and... you know? So I feel like maybe somehow- maybe guy is a mushroom!

Clay (Unjust) (47:00)
We're not asking about the guy, we asked you Izzy.

Ashley McAnelly (47:03)
Hahaha

Allonte (47:03)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jessica (47:08)
⁓ what a fun guy.

Allonte (47:08)
What? What do mean? ⁓ I

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (47:10)
Hey!

Allonte (47:12)
hate it. I hate it so much. I'm so angry. God damn it. Fine.

Ashley McAnelly (47:13)
What does that it's

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (47:14)
There we go, I knew one of you would bite! I knew one of you would bite!

Ashley McAnelly (47:19)
⁓ the last

of us, right?

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (47:22)
⁓ I mean...

Clay (Unjust) (47:22)
Nope. Bye.

Jessica (47:22)
Yeah,

with the, ⁓ what are they called?

Allonte (47:24)
Yeah, yeah. Fungus zombies. I don't know.

Ashley McAnelly (47:26)
Yep, something

Clay (Unjust) (47:27)
Okay.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (47:27)
The

clickers. They infect, yeah, they're just called the infected on it. Then there's the clickers and there's the other ones. I don't know. I worked on the damn show and I can forget.

Ashley McAnelly (47:27)
pods.

Jessica (47:27)
They're not just called

the infected, right? Yeah, the clickers.

Allonte (47:30)
yeah.

Ashley McAnelly (47:39)
You

Jessica (47:41)
Yeah, cause this whole, like that's why everyone's acting crazy. Y'all got spores. Everyone's got spores in the brain. Cause she says that she's like, she says like what in the beginning? Like, Hey, mushroom friends or something like that. It's a, okay. Well, it's all, it's all coming together, man. It's all, it's all coming together.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (47:44)
Yeah, spores. Spores. So spores.

Allonte (47:45)
I

Ashley McAnelly (47:45)
There you go. Answers. We've got the answers.

Allonte (47:58)
Oh, there we

go.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (47:59)
There we go.

Clay (Unjust) (48:00)
See, see you're like, I wish

Allonte (48:00)
This is why I ask these questions.

Clay (Unjust) (48:02)
there were more breadcrumbs, the biggest one completely glossed over just.

Allonte (48:05)
Completely missed

it. Okay. Clever. Clever.

Clay (Unjust) (48:09)
you

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (48:09)
I mean,

when you're a Mycology fan, a lot of this kind of makes sense.

Ashley McAnelly (48:12)
Alrighty, on that note, let's go ahead and take a breather before we move on to our next section. So as we prepare, please enjoy the 60 second

Welcome back from the 60 second reset. So we have been discussing Partialville and we do have the creator here with us. So we will be getting to them in a minute. But before we do, kind of as we've been going, we've been talking about audio script versus narration. Is there anything else we want to touch on with that? Like, cause we have talked about how hard it is, right? So what do you think would make a

I don't know about perfect but like a really good audio script for it to find that balance like what where's the balance there getting us the background Getting us the story what what do we think makes a good script versus a narration or do you or would you always rather have the narration? So kind of open the floor there for that

Allonte (50:16)
That's a toughie. Like, the D &D player in me doesn't mind and loves the narration to kind of like give the breaks, set the scene, tell you a bit more of like the things the characters wouldn't say. Like, I think I'm maybe of camp narration. Yeah.

Jessica (50:39)
I think

the situation, like depending on what story it is you're trying to tell, will determine what the best format is. If you want to create a very visual world, if you want to have lore, if you want to have epilogues and prologues and things like that, feel like narration is the best way to do that.

If you're looking for more of like a character driven story or if you're looking to hide certain things, you don't want everything to be upfront right away, then having it all being told and dialogue and sound effects is a way to formulate that. So I think it really depends on what the story is you're trying to tell. And then you find the appropriate medium because there have been times where it's like, we'll get a script in and it's just people describing what they're seeing and what's happening. And I'm like, if you just wrote this as prose, just pure prose,

it wouldn't feel awkward, you know? And then like other times I'll have a story where it's like, most of it is just people talking to each other. And then the narrator pops in to be like, he turned to the left. It's like, thanks, I needed that.

Allonte (51:29)
Mmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (51:29)
Mmm.

Allonte (51:38)
⁓ yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (51:40)
Hahaha

Ashley McAnelly (51:40)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (Unjust) (51:43)
I'll agree with that. think it definitely depends on the story being told and the intent behind the story. But if you're asking what I prefer, I'm always going to go with the potentially snarky omnipresent observer. I love that idea. I love that way it's delivery. It can describe the simple things like bringing up the leather jacket, the baseball bat, a snarky otherworldly voice could have done that, you know, and it's simple, but it's effective.

Allonte (52:05)
Yeah.

And I feel like, especially for this particular show, like that kind of all character, I could see an all character for a few episodes and then slowly this omnipresent voice comes in to kind of, you know.

Jessica (52:22)
Or just

have Josie be the voice, you know, like she could be like, well, today I was talking to Ange and this is what I know about Ange. And then Ange doesn't have to tell us directly, like during an FBI interview, you know, sort of situation or like Josie can tell us about herself and her feelings about things. But then again, it's like, if she's going to be maybe an unreliable narrator because she's under some sort of something from our British homie, then.

Allonte (52:34)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (52:52)
You

Jessica (52:53)
she's not going to be telling us in her right mind. So it's like, guess I don't know enough about the story at this point ⁓ to pick which I would prefer for this story. Because there's a lot of confusion right now, but that might be on purpose.

Allonte (52:55)
Hmm.

Clay (Unjust) (52:56)
drink

the tea.

Allonte (53:02)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (53:08)
I feel like ⁓ a lot of the choices of where to set the narration versus story often times relies on what the central conceit of the audio drama is. How does the audio aspect play? Is it a tape that's being recorded at some point in a place versus is this a radio show? Is this the disembodied camera that's just floating around?

following different people. This one definitely sits on that disembodied camera side where it doesn't seem like there is a central ⁓ conceit of how the audio plays into things. It's not a recorder that's being held on a specific character.

or it's not following the viewpoint of a specific character, it just sort of sits in the middle of the space, hitting all characters kind of equally. So I feel like, you know, that sort of lends itself very well to this sort of like character-based dialogue, sort of driven narration that they have going.

Allonte (53:58)
you

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (54:22)
So I feel like it was a good choice for for like what the style and conceit was. If that makes any sense.

Allonte (54:30)
Mm-hmm,

Clay (Unjust) (54:31)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Allonte (54:31)
mm-hmm.

Also super, super random non sequitur, just cause I remember it and I loved the kind of self awareness. There was a moment in the show where Ange was just like, was like, yeah, you're finally here about all the disappearance of all these women that have been gone. And they're like, nah, we're here about this dude. And she's like, you motherfuckers, you goddamn motherfuckers over one.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (54:50)
Mm-hmm.

Clay (Unjust) (54:53)
Hahaha

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (54:57)
Hahaha!

Ashley McAnelly (54:57)
Yeah.

Allonte (55:02)
white dude? Really? And they're like, oh, sorry. Like, it's not like we didn't do it. We were just taking orders. Sorry.

Jessica (55:09)
You

Clay (Unjust) (55:09)
You

Ashley McAnelly (55:10)
We don't pick the

orders, we just do what we're told.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (55:13)
Yep.

Allonte (55:14)
And you know what, I love that self-awareness, because I did have a moment reflecting where was a little worried that it wasn't enough. The central mystery is, where is this dude? Things are happening, and the other people seem to be B plots. So I was a little worried that it was just gonna be all about this dude. ⁓ Yeah.

Clay (Unjust) (55:42)
Sorry, Alonti, I'm trying to listen to you, but I see the cat tail trying to replace your mustache, and I'm just completely distracted. Very Tom Selleck, you could rock it,

Allonte (55:43)
That's all.

Ashley McAnelly (55:45)
hahahaha ⁓

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (55:46)
hahahahah

Jessica (55:47)
Hehehehehe

Allonte (55:48)
my god, it looks so good with that mustache.

The end.

Ashley McAnelly (55:56)
I was fixing to say any other comments on script versus narration.

Clay (Unjust) (56:03)
I think we kind of hit this one a lot and with good with good views on the side. So no, I think we caught this one covered.

Ashley McAnelly (56:09)
Okay, anything else around partial well before we wrap up and get to talking to the creator?

Allonte (56:18)
Um, I, I want to continue listening, but I'm having difficulties with the telling over showing. That's, that's my final, final thought. It's a really excellent, well-produced love the voice acting. Mystery boxes are my jam. It's just like, those moments are a little too jarring for me.

Ashley McAnelly (56:49)
So are you thinking, so team no pickle? Or do we need another pickle for like being on the fence? Another cucumber?

Clay (Unjust) (56:53)
You

Allonte (56:53)
I think this is like another cucumber for me.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (56:56)
no!

Allonte (56:57)
That's

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (56:57)
The dreaded cucumber!

Allonte (56:57)
another cucumber. It's a cucumber. It's in the brine, maybe like a day. Like I am more on the positive. Like I wanna keep going to see like, like where things get even more excellent and the central mystery of the story. But you know, yeah, I'm hopeful.

Clay (Unjust) (57:12)
Mm-hmm.

And like, mean,

not every show is for everyone, obviously, but I will say as a person who's caught up, I had the privilege of being on like the live listen with the cast and a few fans for like the finale. And oh my God, everyone was sitting there and their existential dread just. Just I can't believe what's going on right now. Yeah. So if it's if it's for you, it's really for you.

Allonte (57:40)
Stop intriguing me. Stop it. Stop it.

Jessica (57:41)
Mwahahahaha

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (57:42)
It's his job! It's literally his job

to intrigue us!

Clay (Unjust) (57:46)
Yeah,

look, I do two things here, all right? I give far few views in the future of the show we've watched for two episodes, or listened to for two episodes, and I make comments that go absolutely nowhere, okay? This is what I do.

Allonte (57:47)
I know.

Ashley McAnelly (57:59)
you

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (58:01)
So is that a team pickle for you? ⁓

Clay (Unjust) (58:03)
Yeah, like I said, I really enjoyed it. every time a new release came out, I was looking forward to like that would go to top of my queue for the day. I enjoyed it.

Jessica (58:12)
And know what? It's just nice to listen to something that's not horny. You know?

Allonte (58:16)
You

know, you know, I mean, it was mildly horny. Just a little, little, she was horny for what's his face.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (58:19)
You know you have... there's a... there is a point there.

Clay (Unjust) (58:19)
You say that, but then you

Ashley McAnelly (58:20)
Yet.

Jessica (58:20)
It's the little things in life.

Clay (Unjust) (58:26)
reference like, if you're a British man in middle of nowhere America, everyone's gonna be horny for you. mean, so it's...

Ashley McAnelly (58:30)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica (58:31)
just say you're gonna be captivating. ⁓ But it's just like I just feel like in a lot of the other shows we've listened to even if the sexual element isn't in the first couple episodes we listen to, Clay will tell us later like yeah there's some stuff and I'm like cool.

Clay (Unjust) (58:34)
fair.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (58:34)
hahahaha ⁓

Ashley McAnelly (58:34)
Hahaha

Clay (Unjust) (58:44)
Mm-hmm.

It gets sticky.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (58:47)
Did it? Did

Allonte (58:47)
Mmm. Mmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (58:49)
it need to be that horny? Yeah, yeah, no.

Clay (Unjust) (58:50)
No, it doesn't.

Allonte (58:53)
Yes.

Clay (Unjust) (58:56)
But yeah, yeah, backing Allonte on this one.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (58:58)
Second.

Jessica (58:58)
Does this

get horny? my God, does it get horny?

Ashley McAnelly (59:01)
No, no, no, we don't know we don't need to know we don't need to know we don't need to know

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (59:02)
No, no, we're not allowed. We're not allowed. We're not allowed. That's

Jessica (59:02)
No, no horny spoilers

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (59:06)
that is too far in the future. It's outside of our purview. That's just that's just the after show. It's the after show.

Clay (Unjust) (59:07)
Tune in for our Patreon series of Hear It and Horny, when we discuss it.

Ashley McAnelly (59:08)
Mm-hmm ⁓ Gotta get an OnlyFans for that one. Yeah

Clay (Unjust) (59:16)
I'm so glad we

Allonte (59:16)
my god, you know that's

Jessica (59:18)
Yeah, where

Allonte and Clay force me and Izzy to listen to Smut and we're just like...

Clay (Unjust) (59:18)
don't record the after show.

Allonte (59:18)
a show.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (59:22)
Yeah, we're just confused. Yeah, so I guess as last ⁓ sort of final pickle situation, I'm on no pickle with this one just because of how the...

Allonte (59:22)
Why me?

Ashley McAnelly (59:23)
What? What smut was this? Where was I?

Clay (Unjust) (59:24)
force.

Allonte (59:26)
⁓ man.

Jessica (59:29)
And Ashley's there like, yes, tell me more.

Clay (Unjust) (59:33)
movies.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (59:47)
the sort of audio choices. Like, it's a legit audio choice. Like, this is not necessarily a case of like, this is being delivered on poorly. ⁓ It's total in personal preference mode because there's a lot that hits you. ⁓ Like, a lot of the choices for me felt very on the nose, like the Doua de Flor with the stabby noises, feeling very out of ⁓ sort of like the hunger or like American Horror Story situation.

have like a lot of things that hit you like, you know, we go from that whole like, ⁓ wolves and ravens to chainsaws. Like, there's there's a lot that kind of hits you. It's very sort of punchy all the time. And there's not a lot of ways that things are blended out. Sort of a lot of like front ended like ticking clocks and radio static and music does a lot of the work of the sound design on this one. And while Allonte is really into music as sound design, I am less so.

Allonte (1:00:46)
Your dad.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:00:46)
It's not my jam.

So that's totally where this one sits for me. I was intrigued by the story elements. I thought that there was a lot of interest to get us forward, but I was a little put off by just the design of it.

Clay (Unjust) (1:00:55)
Now I we're

I know we're pushing time real quick, I asked Alanté a question. I want to ask you question too. We're talking about music as sound design. What about music as character or is that the same for you?

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:01:13)
⁓

Music as character follows ⁓ characters in their situation. Music as sound design follows more of a sense of what you're supposed to feel in the moment, in the scene. There was lot of stuff with, they're in the FBI... ⁓ what's the word? Interview room, and you have this sort of very... ⁓

Clay (Unjust) (1:01:24)
⁓ okay, okay.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:01:41)
snare

It's like, it's got that sense of there's time, there's beats. It covers a lot of the little cuts and the dead zones, because when you do have those instances where there's not something going on, or it's one thing, like the ticking clock, those silences are punchy. Very kind of like, they're down notes, and you get the sense that there's not an ambient track that's being used to give you that sense of combined...

room noise to blend it all and kind of make it a little bit easier on the ear. So music does a great job of doing that blend for you because you can't really like hear over it. like that, it gives you, it leads you in a direction of what to feel as opposed to like letting the characters' performances do that for you.

Allonte (1:02:47)
Hmmmm

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:02:48)
And that's

Jessica (1:02:48)
And

we have some great performances too. So yeah, I feel like there was, there was one moment where Josie is like, they like, ⁓ she's like yelling cause she's on the phone. They're like, we found a body and nobody tells her that it's not all of her right or right away. And I'm like, why wouldn't we tell her that upfront?

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:02:48)
an element that I'm not, yeah.

Clay (Unjust) (1:02:52)
Yeah.

Allonte (1:03:04)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley McAnelly (1:03:05)
Right, yep.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:03:05)
Also like what the heck is with that? It's like, you know,

we don't know who it is. Just give it give it give us something like Ray.

Clay (Unjust) (1:03:08)
You

Jessica (1:03:10)
Just so unprofessional, just be like, it's not your

Clay (Unjust) (1:03:11)
I'm

Allonte (1:03:12)
Yeah

Jessica (1:03:13)
missing friend that we're implying that it is. But yeah, like she's like screaming.

Ashley McAnelly (1:03:14)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:03:15)
Like, Ray, buddy, why

are you like this? You know, it's just like...

Jessica (1:03:18)
Yeah, but she's

like screaming into the phone. She's like, who is it? Or she's yelling. the emotion is there in the performance. And then the music comes in and it's very strong. It's like boom, boom, boom, boom, to like swell the emotion. I'm like, she's got it already. We don't need all this. Yeah, the performance is there, you know.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:03:22)
Yeah, yeah, she's...

Mm-hmm.

Ashley McAnelly (1:03:34)
Hmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:03:35)
Yeah,

yeah.

Ashley McAnelly (1:03:39)
So Jessica, which way are you leaning then? We got two no pickles so far, Clay's a pickle. What are you thinking? ⁓ okay, sorry. I missed the cucumber bit.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:03:45)
But we have a cucumber. Lontes a cucumber.

Allonte (1:03:47)
We have a pickle, a cucumber, and a no

pickle. Yeah.

Jessica (1:03:50)
guess

I'm kind of with Allonte on this one. Like I'm hopeful and I want, I know, I know. I'm...

Allonte (1:03:54)
What?

the world ending?

Clay (Unjust) (1:03:59)
Moon is getting closer, yes.

Ashley McAnelly (1:04:00)
Is

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:04:01)
Yeah.

Allonte (1:04:01)
Hoo!

Ashley McAnelly (1:04:02)
hell frozen over?

Jessica (1:04:03)
I get like

we can when we talk to the creator, we can sort of see like what's you know, like as the story goes on, it's like, was this intentional or is this because I don't know, I just I always feel bad. I'm on a review show and I'm like, I don't like critiquing things. ⁓ Because like I don't.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:04:19)
You need to be a heel. It's

part of the job.

Jessica (1:04:25)
Well, it's like if you go back to like my first performances as like a voice actor or something and someone was like, this wasn't what it should be. I'd be like, yeah, it didn't turn out how I intended, but you know, this was the best I could do at this moment. And, you know, like if you listen now, I'd like to think I'm a lot better. So it's like some of this stuff could be choices that comes up later on. Some of it could just be like stuff that like this is.

Allonte (1:04:25)
You

⁓

Mmm.

Jessica (1:04:51)
I'm doing the best that I can with what I have right now, cause she's doing everything. ⁓ she's the lead in it and she's doing a great job as the lead. She's doing the writing, she's doing the producing. She has a composer, but she's presumably working with the composer on that. So. Yeah, like I, I, I'd have to see more of the story to know what's intentional, what, you know, what, what are, you know, why are these choices being made? But like, if you're into like sound design and.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:04:55)
Mmm.

Allonte (1:04:55)
Yeah.

Jessica (1:05:21)
big scores and fast-paced movement of a story, think you'd probably really enjoy this.

Allonte (1:05:28)
Bravo, bravo. Yeah.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:05:29)
It has a lot to offer. And it's very

listenable to with a lot of things going on around you because of the way it's designed, which is an advantage. ⁓

Allonte (1:05:40)
I will say listen with headphones. listened to episode one without, and I immediately knew that was a bad choice. So I listened to all the rest with headphones. I had other things to do.

Clay (Unjust) (1:05:46)
Hehehe.

Ashley McAnelly (1:05:47)
She tells you at the very beginning. Yeah. You gotta listen.

Jessica (1:05:48)
She even at the beginning, every episode she tells you.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:05:49)
Yeah, she-

Clay (Unjust) (1:05:51)
No one tells

Allonte what to do.

Allonte (1:05:54)
No, you're not my supervisor.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:06:01)
Ha ha ha ha.

Clay (Unjust) (1:06:01)
The worst part is that came

from somewhere deep in your soul. You have some shit to work out my friend.

Jessica (1:06:08)
we're getting personal now.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:06:10)
we know who your supervisor is.

Allonte (1:06:12)
no. I

Clay (Unjust) (1:06:12)
You

Allonte (1:06:14)
have no super- Well, my cats. The end.

Clay (Unjust) (1:06:16)
Okay ⁓

Ashley McAnelly (1:06:19)
okay so that is it for this segment of our episode. We will be interviewing the creator, Allison, in a little bit but that is the end for this episode. You can listen... I don't think we actually talked about it, how we want to do the interviews, if we wanted that Patreon walled or not, but I guess we'll figure that out and you'll find out soon. Alright, yes, okay.

Jessica (1:06:37)
We'll all find out together.

Clay (Unjust) (1:06:38)
Ha ha ha ha!

Allonte (1:06:39)
I appreciate the honesty.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:06:40)
We're all on this rocket strapped to the moon, like...

Allonte (1:06:43)
⁓

Clay (Unjust) (1:06:44)
You're learning with

us and we appreciate you for being here with us for the ride.

Allonte (1:06:45)
yeah.

Ashley McAnelly (1:06:47)
Mm-hmm.

Allonte (1:06:48)
Hmm.

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:06:48)
yes.

Ashley McAnelly (1:06:48)
Yes. So if you haven't already, we hope you will give Partial Veil a listen and tell us what you think. Or if you have a horror podcast you would like us to review, we would love to hear from you. If you're listening from YouTube, you just comment below. Or if you're listening from a podcast streaming app, you can find a link to Partial Veil or the link to submit a suggestion in the show notes. So next time, we'll be discussing Ghost Wax. I'm throwing that in right now because I don't actually...

I haven't picked yet, but that sounds like the next best one. So let's go with it. I will be discussing Ghost Wax until then this episode ends, but the horror keeps playing. See you next time.

Allonte (1:07:17)
Ghost Wax. ⁓

Izzy Braumberger (They/them) (1:07:21)
post-wax.